From Panic To Peace: How EFT Rewires Stress, Anxiety, And Performance

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Bill Dovell And EFT
• 4:10 CBT, Brain Pathways, And Panic
• 10:30 Why Panic Stops And Anxiety Lingers
• 16:20 Finding EFT After Years Of Searching
• 21:40 Meridians, Touch Points, And Biology
• 27:30 How Tapping Reprograms Responses
• 34:20 The 20‑Minute Public Speaking Shift
• 41:30 Imprinting, Vagus Nerve, And Calm
• 48:30 Quote The Client: Precision Matters
• 55:00 Performance Blocks And Big Results

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Power Living with Kimberly Langford, where inspiration meets empowerment. Kimberly is a nurse executive, leadership coach, Reiki master, and your guide on this journey to whole person wellness.

SPEAKER_02: 0:14

Hey, hey, hey. Oh my gosh. I am super excited. By the way, love your background, Bill. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

Yeah, one of my clients shows it one day. So I just left it there.

SPEAKER_02: 0:28

It's gorgeous. Well, I'm super excited to have you here. So I met Bill Dovell. Is that right? I'm pronouncing your name right, right? Dovell.

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Dovell. Dovell.

SPEAKER_02: 0:39

Bill Dovell. So I met him at a gathering of light workers uh event. And um, he's a nurse as well. So naturally I'm a fan. And I'm super excited to share him today. Bill is not only a psych nurse, but he's also the founder of Pro EFT Center in here in Boise, Idaho. And he's a master, he's a certified master practitioner of EFT. So we're gonna talk a little bit more about that. A lot of people I think know EFT is tapping. Uh some people some people know what that is. Some people think it's doo, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, right. So um, and uh, I know in our family we've used tapping. And uh so I know Bill, you have um worked in psych nursing, you've run uh hospital programs, uh, and now it, you know, your real prowess that you bring to the table is really a trauma-aware, results-driven coaching style that really helps people tap into this uh very affordable therapy to help uh manage a variety of different things. So uh thank you for joining us today as we talk a lot about uh EFT, what that is, and talk a little bit about the biology of stress and anxiety and performance, right? So there's so many benefits around EFT. So maybe you can kick us off and just share a little bit about your background and what drew you to EFT. Tell us a little bit about what EFT is and just the high-level features and benefits. Why do people want to know more about what EFT is?

SPEAKER_00: 2:18

Well, um, I I ended up in California for 15 years. I was a musician married to a nurse, uh, and rich and famous uh trying to be that whole thing led to no income. And so I ended up becoming a nurse. I knew almost became a therapist, but you know, we're uh at 30 and uh taking on 50,000 more dollars of debt didn't seem like a good plan. And uh so uh I could go to community college and uh luckily landed at the highest pass rate community college for the NCLEX in the whole state of California, uh, although it was grueling. And I always knew I was going to go into psychiatry, and they coincidentally had two clinical nurse specialists uh teaching the psych rotation, and so that was wonderful. And uh very quickly I was uh running partial hospitalization programs, and that means uh it's medical model, so I'm the boss. Uh the therapist or psychologist doesn't always appreciate that the RN's a boss, but nonetheless, that's the way it runs. And uh and so I was just voraciously uh taking uh continue education, and uh David Burns, uh B-U-R-N-S Burns, uh uh out of Stanford uh was given a little talk. And it was called the Farther, uh no, that was uh the other guy, but anyway, that uh and it was was Epictetus right. And Epictetis is a Greek philosopher uh who said it's not the event that causes the problems, it's your uh thoughts about the event. And and uh and David Burns is one of the giants in cognitive behavioral therapy. So anyway, so I'm going to attend this little thing at Stanford uh way up in a little uh meeting room. You know, there's like seven or eight of us in the room, and he is showing uh from functional MRIs that the thought starts in the outside of the brain, and and it then it goes uh milliseconds later into the emotional brain, and then it goes to the lizard brain and causes the reactions. And uh many of the psychologists are like the whole system, right? Yeah, yeah, and and then that and then there's the feedback, you know, vagus nerve, which goes from bottom to top. We were all taught it goes from top to bottom, but it's like for every one neuron going from your head down to your body, there's nine of them coming up uh from the body.

SPEAKER_03: 4:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 4:49

Yeah. And and in the middle of all this, he says, I want to show you how to get rid of panic disorder. And so it's we're all, you know, the confidentiality and all that. And uh, so this famous author, female, who has terrible panic disorder, which means she goes through an experience of the panic of dying, you know, 20 times a year. And after a few years, that gets old and really has some problems. So he's working with her and he puts her in a panic attack. And during the panic attack, he has her challenge the beliefs she's going to die using the cognitive technique um that works for her. And the joke was, as we were all being taught this, is that you need to um do this three times. And he says it with a sly little smile, because uh someone with panic disorder, when I was working with them, uh I could have them in a panic attack in 20 seconds, easy. And uh they would, of course, yes, well, they would want to, they have to you have to have a therapeutic alliance with them, uh, they have to trust you, you have to figure out what their system is and you know what works for them. And then we'd I'd take them off to the side and put them in a panic attack. We're gonna challenge the beliefs you're gonna die. Panic works by making you believe you're gonna die. Uh, people in a panic attack don't even stub their toes, they're not getting up and moving. Right. It's it's extremely protective. Nobody during a panic attack has had a heart attack or a stroke. It's very, very protective. It's one of the safest places to be, but it is terrifying and it ruins your life. And uh the problem is they have uncubed panic attacks. In other words, they're not in a car rolling sideways down the mountain, uh, they're in the grocery store. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 6:40

Absolutely. So debilitated.

SPEAKER_00: 6:43

Yeah, it's totally debilitating. They've already been to the ER and the ER docks are rolling their eyes. Not you again. We I told you it's panic, not a heart attack. Okay, but in the crux of the panic attack, you can only believe that you are dying. And it makes you believe that. But if you believe you're dying, the body goes, Oh my god, we better have a panic attack. Okay, so that circle is happening. Panic causes the dying belief, then the dying belief causes the panic. So we work through that while they're in the panic attack using the very effective cognitive behavioral techniques already, and you can't induce a second panic attack. Not ever. Really? And you just yeah, one session's done. Uh, however, I was running in the in in uh the second um program I ran in the Bay Area. I kept getting jobs closer to home, which is very important in the Bay Area. And uh we had an aftercare program. So people they can come in for free one day a week, and sometimes you know they'll come in years later, all of that. And uh and uh what I really noticed is the panic people I had done this with never had another panic attack. But their anxiety, their depression, their OCD, relationship circle of hell, etc., all of that kept coming back. So uh being an inquisitive guy, I started asking David Burns and Lee Pearsons and all these giants of cognitive behavioral therapy why? Yeah, how come? Yeah, uh, and and these people are very broad-minded within the field of uh clinical psychiatry and psychology, and they'd say because anxiety is harder to treat than panic. And um and it's because in their life experience it is. They get rid of the panic just like I was doing with folks, and then their anxiety keeps coming up. And it took me just a little while before I went, no, it doesn't. That's not the it's not because you've seen Pearson in a panic attack, they're totally freaked out. And so I got the idea that the person was totally a hundred percent in their body in the panic attack, where with anxiety, they were committed to the anxiety, but maybe it's only less in the body. So I spent 15 years looking for something that worked. I I looked at hypnotism, um, EMDR, all sorts of things that would do it for everything. So if you can do it for panic, you should be able to do it for everything else. And then um, I even became a yoga teacher, uh, downward dog, fill out your mood log. I never did try to, I never did figure out how to make those things work. Okay, but I was trying and I accidentally stumbled onto EFT. And so I trained in it for about three months. And by that time, I was working inpatient uh in Boise. And um in three months I had the this is what I've been looking for. It changes everything. So every thought, emotion, reaction, body sensation uh can be changed. And and so um and I I it took a while because behavioral biology, uh uh, or if you're a nerd, psychoneuroimmunology, all of that kind of stuff, uh teaches you to think in all the different boxes, you know, psychology, anatomy, um, you know, and evolutionary biology, et cetera, you know, all of them. And um and I started using it with impatience, and it worked better than anything that I that anybody had ever seen. Uh, of course I got the normal flack because I'm doing something weird.

SPEAKER_02: 10:36

But anyway, the not on our policies and procedures, young man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:43

Uh plus it required a little overtime because you know how they staff us so well. But anyway, uh and uh I I went, this is it. And so basically, um tapping teaches in in all the basic forms, and I'm trained in three of them, uh, that were tapping on the very tips of the meridians. And when you tap on the tip of a meridian, it unkinks the meridian, and all evil is chart caused by kinks in your meridians.

SPEAKER_02: 11:17

Okay, now can we pause there for a minute? That's for people who don't know what meridians are. So you're tapping into um a very and it's interesting because we can map out the I don't know if you've you've probably seen the CT scans after uh like an energy treatment where we can see the meridians. Yeah. It's like a channel of it's like a river. It looks like an artery or vein, but there's nothing there. It's energy.

SPEAKER_00: 11:44

Yes, it and and uh there's several theories all the way to um extremely tiny channels that move a single photon uh all the way through the the electrical energy. But if you go to an acupuncturist, you notice their little dolls they have and all those dots.

SPEAKER_02: 12:03

All the markings, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:05

And and uh turns out if you keep accurate records for 5,000 years, you'll learn a few things, which the acupuncturists have. And uh uh and acupuncture actually was semi-helpful for you know a lot of the the PTSD soldiers I took care of. Um that was the one thing that seemed to start to make a difference. Uh, but the way I teach it for people, because that's not a bad way of understanding it. This is the, you know, if you can think the doll faces over me, well, the and gallbladder meridian ends here and the and uh bladder ends here. Uh I got to to uh a better understanding of it, and this is the way I explain tapping. Could have had a V8, I've got a headache, home alone poster. You know I'm thinking. If if you go to France and see the guy doing this, you know why they had to rename it the thinker, because everybody says he's thinking. I'm shocked. Every actress on the planet knows these spots, and if you want to convey to the audience when you're on stage that you're shocked, you touch here. Uh, often they can even just point it here. Yeah. And everyone in the audience will have a little bit of the sensation of what they feel like when they're shocked. So, why do we touch here? It's because it's already innate. We are built with all these points. Actually, the exact points are a little closer to the nervous system. Uh, they're they're kind of little holes. But these points that we tap on are the same points everybody rub, or even like monkeys. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, that that and you can hold them. It takes about 27 seconds. And if you tap this long, that's how long it takes tapping. Otherwise, I'd have my clients holding. So it's way faster to tap and way more intense.

SPEAKER_02: 14:00

So tapping, you are uh you are tapping into your body's pathway of energy, right? Which is it's interesting that you mentioned, you know, as thought flows and and comes back up, your these channels of energy also run in a very similar pattern. So you can yeah, so you can tap into that energy source to actually change your neuroimmunicology and whatnot, your your psycho-emotional state.

SPEAKER_00: 14:29

And here's why. Uh, because and the why in classical EFT, gold standard, pro EFT, uh clinical, etc. Uh their their idea is the kink in the energy channel was the problem. And it's true, if you're upset, you'll be uptight here. Well, the this uh kidney and the stomach right here, those energy channels are going to be kinked. Why? Because your muscles are going okay. Uh but that's not why I do it. It works really well in the moment it because we we write down all the stuff that's bothering you, and then I have I have you repeat back as I'm reading what you've said while we're doing the points. And at the end you go, I feel a lot better, which is totally shocking every time in the beginning.

unknown: 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:18

Uh, but what we're doing, there's a it's not just in the moment, in other words, when you heal something in a tapping session, uh it's different. In other words, uh and the 20-minute miracle version, which happens we've all done it, uh comes in and has it, she has a terrible problem with public speaking. Uh uh, and so we tap it down. It's kind of funny because we have to talk about all the things she's tried from psychologists to meds to uh join Toastmasters, et cetera, you know, the whole list. And then she goes and gives her little talk, and she's kind of hesitating. I showed up for that, it was in a networking thing, and she said, you know, Bill knows what I'm gonna talk about. And I got a smile and says, I I'm terrified of public speaking. Everybody says, Oh, you always look so great, you look so calm. Says, cut out that crap. I'm terrified of it.

unknown: 16:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:15

And and you notice when I was given my talk that I had to kind of refocus and think about things, and they all said yes. It says, Here's the problem is when I go to talk, I usually have these problems. My chest didn't feel tight, my hands weren't sweating, uh, my brain didn't go blank, I couldn't feel my heart beating. So it's totally threw me off.

SPEAKER_02: 16:38

Okay, I was waiting for all the panic to come and it wouldn't come. Bill scurred me up.

SPEAKER_00: 16:44

Well, and because she had tried everything you could imagine and she had felt better during the session, um, she also revealed, she says, you know, I tap with Bill, and that's what happened. And on the way out, like walking down the hallway, uh, she she said, I said out loud, she wasn't being mean. So there's another thing that didn't work. And because she would feel good at the psychologist office uh or the speech coach or wherever, and she would go, and as soon as she saw the podium, everything starts happening again. So in the 20-minute miracle version, uh, which you get advertised all over, uh, it um it's changing your internal programming. And and that's why it's so good. It's not just calming you down in the moment. Uh, and I will tell you now, getting into uh behavioral biology and all that, the reason that your unconscious mind allows you to imprint is because your emotions have to be elevated enough. Right now, it's keeping track of the ejection fraction on your descending a order, the amount of vasodilation, vasal constriction, all the way down to your left little toe. And if you assign your our puny little conscious mind to keep track of all that, you couldn't even walk. It would take everything you had. And so the unconscious mind, it's also called the preconscious, subconscious, and lately fast mind, um it goes, you're not coming in here and changing stuff, anything. Who knows what you could mess up? So it won't let you change. And and so uh essentially what happens is you have to elevate this calming effect to a very high intensity. And each one of these things are calming, reassuring, the the loved, safe, okay conditions, and you have to elevate them to enough intensity to turn on the record button, if you will.

SPEAKER_02: 18:44

And then the um you can kind of sneak around the subconscious. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00: 18:50

Kind of a way to oh oh no, the what when the person comes in to talk to me, uh, I do a very thorough intake every single session. I ask the same, and I already call them this, I ask the same stupid questions every time. So, what's your situation? What brings you in? And then I go, Well, how is that affecting you? And what's your goal? It's if you can't think of a goal, life goes on, we solve that. But uh, and then with a sense of compassion, I explained to them, so why don't you just do that? Why don't you just do your goal? Well, I've tried everything. We'll give be a good example, and that's the thought, the outside of the brain. Um, and uh, I feel frustrated by that. So this is just going through your neurobiology. The thoughts program, send messages to the emotional brain. The emotional brain is not connected to your eyes, your ears, your pressure sensors, your skin, not connected to any of those. It is directly connected to your thinking brain, and also a bit of it's connected to your nose, but that's a whole nother lecture. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 19:56

Okay, we got uh I'm already thinking about session two with you, Bill.

SPEAKER_00: 20:01

Okay, good. And so what we're doing is because the body, this uh vagus nerve everybody talks about, which actually mostly comes from the body to the brain. That's not how we were taught in nursing and medical school, but they've discovered it in the last five, 10 years that actually works from here to here. And we're sending in an enormously calming signal because tapping is 27 seconds worth of effect and 27 seconds worth of effect and 27 seconds worth of effect, and it's sending this whole body ride response that we're safe, loved, and okay. But it's intense enough that the unconscious mind says, Oh, intense emotions, I better record stuff. Oh because you're calm, it puts you in charge of how you want it to be in there. And um, and so uh that's my uh biological explanation to help people understand what we're actually doing. And so uh, you know, first we're helping you organize your story, and then we're figuring out uh uh a word picture of what you're thinking, the emotions you're feeling, uh the reactions and behaviors that are happening, and the sensations in your body. And then we just go tap on mentioning all this. And I I I had a client last week who's about our third or fourth session. She's going, I can't believe it. Okay, because you know, we write that stuff one to ten. And uh how anxious, I'm not feeling anxious. Okay, because it doesn't make any sense because we're not taking you to another place and meditating on something or doing that. No, don't rubbing it. Yeah, we're rubbing it in your face, the thing that makes you anxious. Okay, we're talking all about it, you know, and all that. And uh what it does is it takes this uh charge, and we use the word charge, but as as you mentioned um earlier when we were talking, they you can put EEG helmets on. And as the person is reporting that anxiety is a 10, the activity in the brain is like this. And then when it's a five, it's kind of like this. And and they'll come in before sessions when they've studied this. I'm calm today, and there's normal activity. Uh so we actually are taking the biological charge out of this system that's just trying to protect you, uh, but it can't reason, can't can't evaluate. It doesn't even understand understand, present, and future tenses. It's just all boom. Okay. And so we go in there, and then you'll find that besides feeling good in the session, it just starts feeling good. Somebody had terrible panic and moved to Idaho, husband's idea, not her idea.

unknown: 23:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

And she was starting to get very panicked when she would leave. It wasn't quite to the point of agoraphobia, but it was getting there. And so we sat for a while, and there's all sorts of uh complications in her case. And then she came in one time and says, you know, I never panic when I leave. I just don't panic. I don't know why, but you know, and and then she was worried, we're working on anxiety, tap that down. And well, I'm not really anxious anymore, but I am feeling a little bothered. In other words, we're just going through the different responses that have been recorded into her system and putting her in charge of it. So, anyway, that's what I do.

SPEAKER_02: 23:39

So you really have a chance to it, sounds like a system reboot and reprogram.

SPEAKER_00: 23:45

Yeah. And and the problem is, okay, you you have some good coaching, good therapist, and you go, it's really silly to be upset about public speaking. I'm taking a simple one and it goes in your conscious mind. And the second see you see the podium, the fight or flight response turns off your conscious mind. So all the good things you you're putting in there are now shut off. The only thing that's left is these triggering uh events that are in your system. And so that's why I love it. Very much like the panic attacks. Uh that uh I mean, people are saying, what? You did one session and no more panic? Yes. And um uh when you erase that one cycle, uh, and we just doing the same thing with everything. Uh it's uh it's any kind of reaction you're having, uh, any response, any thoughts, um, we get it. And the reason I'm using a uh keyboard all the time is because we're getting you quoted. And the quotes are exactly in your neural network.

SPEAKER_03: 24:56

Uh you change one word, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:59

You change one word, it can be different. Uh for example, a medical doctor comes in and sees me from time to time, and on the intake form, uh, what are you working on? Negative thoughts, okay. Right. And so in one session, negative thoughts, we rated it, and on a one to ten scale, it was a five, and it had a list of several emotions that were spawning from the negative thought. And then we got into a little more detail, and the next thought was my negative thoughts. That was a nine.

SPEAKER_03: 25:32

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 25:33

Adding one word was and the emotional response were completely different emotions. And so uh, you won't find in the world of EFT anywhere that I know of right now, uh, Lindsay Kenny got closer to that. She could do shorthand. Um, it's really important to quote what the person is saying. And Lindsay Kenny is the person who started pro-EFT, and uh, she's one of the original three masters of EFT. Uh, that's a people that could do it on stage uh in front of everyone else with a person, and you have 20 minutes, here's somebody you don't know, make them better. Okay. So she was very talented. And um, so anyway, that's a lineage I come from.

SPEAKER_02: 26:18

Very so you know, the thought occurred to me, you know, for folks that are dealing with these, whether it's you know, fears, anxieties, uh, depression, depressive thoughts, self-limiting beliefs. What about for folks who might maybe they don't have like anxiety or panic attacks or but they just want to improve their performance? We so for instance, a lot of the folks that I'll work with, they'll set goals and you get really close and then you don't. You never quite hit it. And usually I find that's that's usually something up here that says usually it's a deserve level or something like that. Can you use the FT to optimize your personal or professional performance?

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

Well, that's one of my best sources of referrals. Okay. They've they've just gone with their life coach and or even to the really, really big names. They just come back from a seminar, spent thousands of dollars, and now this is what I'm supposed to say. And so they read it, and immediately it says, I can't do that.

SPEAKER_02: 27:22

Yeah, you can't you can't uh tell your the brain knows you're telling me this affirmation, but it's a lie, right? Yeah, I'm a millionaire, I'm a millionaire. Well, no, you're not. I look at my checkbook, I will see my account balance. You are not a millionaire.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

And and if you are able to imprint it, and this is important when you're tapping. Anybody can do this, by the way. You just learn a few points. And what I highly suggest is you write down your thoughts, you don't like journaling, and then you read them back tapping phrase for phrase, and you'll notice everything kind of calms down. Uh, when it gets complex, that's where you come in with me because I help you organize your whole story, really get the biological responses we go in. And um and so that's part of when a person comes in. I'm just tired of um, I'll give I'll give you one. I have a glass ceiling on my business, and me and my husband are the owners. So it's you know, it's not the upper management that's has a problem. It's usually me.

SPEAKER_02: 28:30

Yeah, and so the problem usually is me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:34

And so we tap that away. And the next year, because what was causing that was gone, uh, there it was a franchisee, and their franchise grew more than any other franchise in the whole country in one year. Uh, she continued to tap uh because the more employees you get, the more you're gonna get people in that sociopathic pattern. And uh and so we're tapping on that, and that reminded her of the boyfriend on another continent, and she is in school, and he was actually a sadomasochist. Okay, so now we're tapping on that, and then that brings in creepy dad, and and you know where that's headed. And eventually what uncovered is she had been abused severely as a child, uh, lots and lots of times. You know, there you're more in hundreds to thousands of times, and um she had those sensations every single day for 40 years, and she was able to hide it from everybody, and uh, we got rid of them. But it took that that's part of the tapping. You're getting rid of this layer, and then they call it unpeeling the onion and tapping universally, and then you go to this layer, and then you go to this layer. So some people come into the problem, we fix the problem, and they're gone. Other people start uncovering that underneath there's some real stuff there, and uh with With me, again, psychiatry nurse, I've I've seen and heard the worst stories you'll ever imagine, and in much more detail than the average nurse, because I'm the person sitting down with them running the program, doing groups, etc. Okay. Um and so when somebody has a a very severe problem pops up, it's it's oh, we're ready to go. Let's do it. Uh, as opposed to um, and you covered it in your questions. Uh, when do you not want to see your EFT person? You don't want to see them if they don't know anything about severe trauma. Right. You you want to immediately uh go to someone who's a good trauma specialist, and that would also include therapists. Uh, your marriage and family therapist had one semester of psychopathology. Yeah, and when they're a freshman, they are not equipped.

SPEAKER_02: 30:59

You can do a whole lot of damage and unknowingly do a whole lot of damage without that level of expertise.

SPEAKER_00: 31:05

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I just happen to be one of the people because of all the places I've been that's highly versed in it, understands it, uh, still study it. Um uh the psychology of mass control, there's a course I'm taking right now, for example.

SPEAKER_02: 31:22

Oh, that sounds really good, especially for today.

SPEAKER_00: 31:26

Yeah, I I I just love it. And I continue to learn those things. So when somebody when it does blow up, and you you'd never guess who. Uh, I'm a practitioner and you'd never guess who. Okay. They'll say, Well, I wonder if it happened, has something to do when I was 17 and I was kidnapped and locked in a cage. Well, okay, no.

SPEAKER_02: 31:49

So you have to know how to go there.

SPEAKER_00: 31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:54

Well, and have the skills and and the the toolbox to go into those dark places with yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:03

Well, well, the people feel very, very alone. And because I have a a lot of knowledge about how that works, uh, no, this is a normal reaction. Okay, and they go, I just I'd I just want to be normal. I used to be normal, but I don't think I'm not gonna be able to do that. You're not broken. No, this is a normal response to severe trauma. And um, and so because when that happens, and I have EFT practitioners who um who send people to me because they go, I can't handle this one. And so I'm the guy that can. But by the way, you don't have to have a major T trauma to come and see me to answer your question again. It may not uncover any of that. It could be that, you know, uh I was always criticized or whatever pops up, and um and when it pops up, we'll tap on it. It and I never go looking, say, well, let's do a deep drill down into your, you know, nah that's painful and traumatic. We just tap on what the problem is, and when you say your goal, your unconscious mind, which most people think may be against us partly, your unconscious mind wants to solve the problem. You just told it what you wanted to do. So it will tell you what you need to change if you want the problem uh to be solved, and it just flies out of people's mouths. We we, you know, people come back, I'm not really sure what I want to work on. It's never a problem.

SPEAKER_02: 33:33

Wow, in the hands of a master, you can do great things. Oh my gosh. So well, thank you. That's such a juicy discussion. And I know you and I were talking earlier, too. You know, um, I really do think, you know, we were talking earlier about, you know, VA is a perfect example. VA now uses qi gong. Qi gong is a recommended and and authorized treatment for a lot of our vets. I w t I think is in that same vein. I can't imagine a time where that won't be embraced as a modality.

SPEAKER_00: 34:07

It just in the last couple three years, they now allow it. Uh yeah, very new. You know, when I when I used to be tapping with inpatients, they the first response I get from Red, they let you do that. Well, I just go do it. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 34:23

Yeah, yeah. It needs to be done. I do it. Well, I you know, oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 34:29

Go ahead. No, but like the VA is allowing it. At first they were extremely resistant to it. That old Schopenheimer, Schopenhoferheimer. I'm gonna misquote him. I can look it up, but we'll let it go. Is that new ideas are first um really resisted, and then they're severely punished, and then later everybody just knows it's true.

SPEAKER_02: 34:54

Isn't that true? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:57

And and that was certainly true in the VA.

SPEAKER_02: 35:01

Um what about, you know, I'm I'm just wondering, uh, because I know uh you and I both have an event to get to, but could you walk us through just a short, I don't know, pick your favor your favorite most common thing that somebody might come. Would you walk us through? I've seen you do this before. Walk us through an example of um something that somebody could do in four or five minutes to uh test that water and want to learn more.

SPEAKER_00: 35:30

Um to to getting on to the results part, uh the this is important. We first you have to tap down the bad stuff. If you try to put the good stuff on top of the bad stuff, now you have even if you programmed it in, two parts of you are now arguing.

SPEAKER_02: 35:46

Is that like makeup on a truly good? It's not gonna make the pimple go away, it's just gonna look bad.

SPEAKER_00: 35:51

Yes, it looks bad, it's horrendous. No, it's fine, it'll go away on its own. No, it's horrendous, and it's fine, it's fine. And and by the way, if someone's having that argument, I'll just tap with them. It's horrendous. No, it isn't. It's horrendous, and it is not horrendous, it's horrendous, and then we pretty soon we're giggling because of the argument between the two sides of them, and then we um explore the validity of each point of view, but not so exaggerated, and and that helps bring it down. That's a technique you can use. Uh when I'm doing the session, we're we've really mapped out what's going on to the person each time. And if all the symptoms are going down or are completely gone, um, then we'll we'll tap in very specific stuff like I am feeling happy, I I have met my goal, I really am a millionaire. Okay, to use one of your phrases.

SPEAKER_03: 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:49

Now, if there's no resistance, we can just do it. And then what we do is we add things like law of attraction. I love it when, which is the that's law of attraction with uh with a booster shot, okay, so to speak. I love it when I'm at the I love it when I'm happy, I love it when I'm relaxed, I love it when I'm feeling confident, and so we're putting in specific programming at the end, but now we need proof. If you tell the body that's what we're doing and you don't have any evidence, it's so just like when I go to the beach, just like when my wife and I sit down and have dinner, just like when the you know, the first time I saw my new daughter, et cetera, whatever they are. And and so we give examples of the body being in the place that you're programming it in, and that's what we very specifically tap in. However, uh, that's very good. By the way, if you're halfway there, we walk towards in a way because we don't invalidate, you know. I walk away from the thought, I have a fear of public speaking. I walk towards feeling calm, I walk towards we can do a halfway thing. But let's say at the end of the session, because this is real life, uh uh you have something, it used to be a 15 on a one to 10 scale, but it's only down to an eight. That's too much intensity to be specific. Because uh, as you know, when you really need to feel understood about something and somebody gives you the solution, you feel invalidated, not listened to. You know, that that's the classic me male-female thing. She's at home and has been at one of those days. He comes home, says, Hi, honey, and she says, Let me tell you the and before she can get the second sentence out, he's already given your solution. Yeah. Yeah, and we don't want to do the same thing to ourselves inside. So what we do then is there are biological patterns that I've uh been able to break down uh and make them see what they really are. Because when we have traumas, upsetting stuff, and little tea traumas too. It could just be that uh person at work that just sucks the energy out of the room, a little tea trauma, you know. That's not like a that meet doesn't mean I've been.

SPEAKER_02: 39:18

You know, are chasing you with a knife or something. Yeah.

unknown: 39:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:22

And so uh if if those are still not quite letting go enough, or maybe even a little one went up, you know, then uh what we do is we tap on uh generalities of all the stuff that gets wired backwards whenever little T or big T traumas happen, events that are emotional and they're painful and you don't like them, and they program us. We're not in charge of how we get programmed there. They are, and so we're tapping all of that out. So if it's bigger, then we can put in a specific response to. So that's the three parts of a session. You know, one figure out what's going wrong, the other two tap down the bad stuff. Well, now you want to put in stuff how you want it to be, and um uh and that's a classic session. So what we do is we take something like let's say, you know, I want to avoid that part of me that's anxious, all right. And in the tapping, we've already covered that I I want to avoid being anxious. I mean, I hate being anxious. If you're anxious, you'd know how bad it feels. So we're tapping like that. And and I keep telling my body to avoid being anxious. You know, I'm filling in blanks a little bit, and my body goes, I've got the perfect emotion. Here's an emotion that makes you avoid things. And you know, of course, what it is it's anxiety. And so I am anxious in order to avoid anxiety, and we'll laugh and giggle, and and and it helps understand that it's time to choose a new emotion. Uh, but let's say the anxiety is still at an eight. If we say uh in the last tapping, we get very specific, then uh that is not going to work. It'll blow up. The person will be harmed by it to feel worse. Yeah. Because uh the part that has you you have no under. I mean, I have paralyzing anxiety. You have no idea how hard it is, and that whole part, whoops, excuse me. I talk like an Italian hypnotized.

SPEAKER_02: 41:30

I can't I can't even go to work, it's so bad. Or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:34

Well, that part is still up there a little bit, and it's time for that part of the session to be over. Then in this case, well, the problem is, you know, I just uh I hate the part of me that has anxiety. Well, we want to tap in learning how to truly love and accept yourself, and uh so just do the same points I'm doing. If you if you by the way, most of the world taps with one hand and they quit about here, they'll do it that way. I'll get so it doesn't blot me out. Uh, but I'm gonna do more points, and the reason is because there are different uh systems that aren't EFT and within EFT, and people do slightly different points, et cetera, et cetera. And um, so what I did is uh is uh, you know, when they had years and years ago the huge title waves and all that, well, I did a survey of the unedited photos, which uh were easier to access in the old days, and I saw where they're holding.

SPEAKER_03: 42:33

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:35

And so all the points we're gonna do are these places that everybody goes to, okay, and to comfort. And so if you forget some of them, don't worry, you can go to my website and there's a video link there somewhere that that has me uh being very specific about them. But if you're in the general neighborhood and tapping, that's perfect. So we're just gonna start tapping, and there are other parts like the setup point and all that. You don't even need that to do the simple tapping. So you're gonna repeat after me, and then at home you can do the same thing. So we're starting with the eyebrow point. I'm getting better at this every single day.

SPEAKER_02: 43:16

I'm getting better at this every single day.

SPEAKER_00: 43:20

I even know when to do what.

SPEAKER_02: 43:22

I even know when to do what.

SPEAKER_00: 43:25

Turns out timing is important.

SPEAKER_02: 43:27

Turns out timing is important.

SPEAKER_00: 43:30

When yeah, I am trying to learn how to love and accept myself.

SPEAKER_02: 43:35

I'm trying to learn to love and accept myself.

SPEAKER_00: 43:39

Even though there are parts of me that don't like what other parts are doing.

SPEAKER_02: 43:44

Even though there are parts of me that don't like what other parts of me are doing.

SPEAKER_00: 43:49

I really want to love and accept myself.

SPEAKER_02: 43:53

I really want to learn to love and accept myself.

SPEAKER_00: 43:57

And so that's what we do. We learn to love and accept myself.

SPEAKER_02: 44:02

That's what we do. We learn to love and accept ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 44:05

And I mean all of myself.

SPEAKER_02: 44:08

And I mean all of myself.

SPEAKER_00: 44:10

My thoughts.

SPEAKER_02: 44:12

My thoughts.

SPEAKER_00: 44:14

And I'm talking to all of you.

SPEAKER_02: 44:16

And I'm talking to all of you.

SPEAKER_00: 44:18

All the emotions. All the emotions, all the decisions I've made.

SPEAKER_02: 44:25

All the decisions I've made.

SPEAKER_00: 44:28

All of my behaviors.

SPEAKER_02: 44:30

All of my behaviors.

SPEAKER_00: 44:32

All of my reactions.

SPEAKER_02: 44:34

All of my reactions.

SPEAKER_00: 44:36

And all the sensations I feel in my body.

SPEAKER_02: 44:39

And all of the sensations I feel in my body.

SPEAKER_00: 44:43

I honor the truth of what you say.

SPEAKER_02: 44:47

I honor the truth of what you say.

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

I honor the way you say what you say.

SPEAKER_02: 44:53

I honor the way you say what you say.

SPEAKER_00: 44:56

I honor the emotions you might be feeling.

SPEAKER_02: 45:00

I honor the emotions you might be feeling.

SPEAKER_00: 45:03

I want to understand even better.

SPEAKER_02: 45:07

I want to understand even better.

SPEAKER_00: 45:10

How you think and feel.

SPEAKER_02: 45:12

How you think and feel.

SPEAKER_00: 45:14

I am feeling.

SPEAKER_02: 45:16

I am feeling.

SPEAKER_00: 45:17

And it's your turn. How are you feeling? Okay. I appreciate you as you are.

SPEAKER_02: 45:25

I appreciate you as you are.

SPEAKER_00: 45:28

It's all so easy.

SPEAKER_02: 45:31

It's all so easy.

SPEAKER_00: 45:34

And then you can take a breath. But just that little routine, people can tap with that, and it's reorienting the part of us that uh learn that, for example, I have to be good enough to be lovable. If I reach a certain goal, then people love me. Okay. And then we're saying that by the way, with lovability, that's the opposite of lovability. I mean, for example, if you win the lottery and you have a thousand new best friends, you can you can't have a thousand new best friends. Yeah. You can't really depend that they uh all love you. They may act pretty loving, and uh so that that may be about acceptability, but not the love part. Love and even though cognitively we can say this in your heart of hearts and the way you react, it isn't put in there yet. Uh, has anyone ever loved you? If you've ever been loved, then there's nothing you can do about it. You're lovable. If you weren't lovable, that couldn't have happened. And so uh there are a thousand things like that that we do in the tapping to help. Um, but that's why love and acceptance is uh very important. Uh and it's not uh I am a superior being, I am a zillionaire, I am, you know, it's just I love and accept myself just as I am. And so so that routine, which actually comes from um David Burns, who doesn't take credit for it because uh uh uh a resident, he was teaching cognitive behavioral therapy decades and decades ago, was as uh Sterling Morey was his name. Um, he was brilliant about how to really have empathy and really be understanding in a way that had the client feel understood. And that last thing was an encapsulation of uh it's an eight to 16 hour course. But we there's the general concepts in it, and so um that's that's the other part of of tapping is that when you can't put specifics in because it'll blow up because it's too invalidating, then we just do we do general ideas, you know, uh like effective grieving, love and acceptance, or like uh uh what about when someone or something is hurting me? Or if you're in an abusive relationship, uh particularly with the sociopath next door, there's uh recognizing and uh reacting to the sociopathic pattern. There's a whole bunch of them that I will use in general that that helps the person at least to be in general changing the pattern, their internal responses back to where they were at creation, so to speak. There's no little baby in utero that said, you know, I think I would like to just have my confidence destroyed.

SPEAKER_02: 48:47

Right? Yes. So you kind of have an opportunity to to to really um purge, so to speak. And it's interesting as I'm I'm listening to you you describe this whole process. I'm thinking about there's some real similar similarities in energetic frameworks, right? We first have to purge before we can tonify, right? And then you you have to do that process first.

SPEAKER_00: 49:15

Yeah. Um if you're a wounded soldier, yeah. If you're a wounded soldier, you need to heal your wound before you go back on the battlefield. Right. Same, yeah. And it it really is that simple. That's true because uh with the psychological stuff, well, we don't want to think of that. And and so if it's buried and repressed, and a lot of this stuff, it's just you just tell me your goal, and then I'll say with compassion, and particularly after the first session, people get it's from a sense of compassion is a pair compared to all the free advice we get. Uh so why don't you just do that and it'll pop out, you know. Uh yeah, what's holding you back?

SPEAKER_03: 50:00

Yeah, because beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:02

Your your unconscious mind, even the parts that have anxiety or rage or or depression or whatever it is, problems. Well, we think they're our enemy, and from their standpoint, because they can't evaluate, uh, it's like they're screaming at you. Weren't you there? Don't you remember? Okay. When you're tapping, you get to reprogram them to like let's say it's anxiety. We we just say, This much anxiety over my head really is too much. Uh, you know, anxiety if I hear a rattling sound under a rock while I'm out walking in the foothills. Well, I don't bend over and I don't bend over and look under the rock. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 50:48

Well, really, let me see. Give them my goat.

SPEAKER_00: 50:53

Well, well, that's functional anxiety, and then you're on a really nice walk and away you go, you know, and you calm down again. Uh, dysfunctional anxiety is when you can't leave the house or um it's torture to do things that, you know, like giving presentations or something. It's just torture. But your job requires it. So, you know, things like that. So we just get rid of the what's not functioning right.

SPEAKER_02: 51:20

Yeah, you know, it's interesting too. Uh, you and I talked about this earlier at one of the events about the rise that we're seeing. Um, especially, well, gosh, it seems to me we're on the upward trajectory of anxieties and fears on the social, um, on a uh socioeconomic uh even not economics, but on a whole societal level since COVID. Yeah. It's a definitely a noticeable impact.

SPEAKER_00: 51:49

It is. And um and uh like back back in the partial hospitalization days, people come in and they'd say, I watched the news and I'm all depressed, and don't watch the news. Yeah, turn it off. Because the major media imprints you by creating fear and anxiety, and it's a great way to sell products.

unknown: 52:13

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 52:14

It's a great way to have uh no matter which political movement, the it's a great way to have uh you get more solidified and and and uh I mean we're we're all brothers and sisters, yeah. And and really most of the people are pretty nice people, and uh and uh it's it's that imprinted reaction, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 52:38

Yeah, and so anybody that wants Yeah, most people aren't out to get us, but the programming is that everybody's out to get you.

SPEAKER_00: 52:48

Yes. Now there are people who are have that sociopathic pattern. They'd you know the ethics we would feel or the empathy, they don't have that pesky stuff. And so and they really don't. They feel the sense of freedom and boredom. They're they're always terribly.

SPEAKER_02: 53:05

Can EFT can EFT help with um with some of those uh some of those types of pathologies, like um like a sociopathic, like you know, somebody with deep abuse or um yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:22

Well, I'll I'll give you an example.

SPEAKER_02: 53:26

Not the ADHD or bipolar sociopath, but I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00: 53:31

Yeah, well, well, like there was a guy um who heart of hearts just the just a gem, one of the nicest and wonderful people you'll ever meet. But when he gets triggered, out comes his father. And uh his father was a very angry, uh not rational person, uh uh and all of that stuff. And he in his heart of hearts wanted to get rid of those reactions, and so we are have tapped those way down, and um and like I don't do marriage therapy, I've long since retired a referee uniform. Uh but but I do do two spouses that want to reclaim the love that they had, and they each come independently to get rid of their blocks because often this person blocks are aggravating to the other one. And so you tap this one down, the other one goes, and then you tap that one down, and the other one's going okay. And uh so it can be used for all sorts of things, and a lot of people who are trying to achieve better and better and better come to me as well. Uh, and if there's a block, we get rid of the block. If there's not a block, we reinforce in every cell of their body going where it is they want to go.

SPEAKER_02: 54:50

And I love that you said that because this whole um energetic emotional pathway, it does have a biological, a physiological aspect to that. Um our our emotional mental programming does have absolutely impact our biology.

SPEAKER_00: 55:06

Yeah, definitely, and and vice versa. It's a um and uh the body, you know, we say, well, this is psychology, this is medicine, this is medical, uh, this is uh you know, motivational, uh, this is romance. Um, your body doesn't know the difference from all that stuff. We have to make little sections of it to um understand it and yeah, to to comprehend and we can get caught in those little boxes. Uh but so that's why in the practice I'm doing rather than taking one symptom is that you're upset? Okay, it's tap down, you're upset. Okay, that was a wonderful session. Uh, we go into what you want, what's in the way, and and your body mind will just say it because the unconscious mind is it once you tell it this is its goal, it'll give you its answers to how you get there. And then we tap it down, and then uh the the my clients go, you know, that's really not a problem for me anymore. And they go off, and then uh you know, a few years later, I I might get an accolade from them because they run into me somewhere, or uh they might say, I can't handle this one. I think I need some help. And they'll get back and do a few sessions. And it's really a self-help group uh kind of thing. Uh, but but it's very individualistic for you. And people come to me when it's they're just not getting anywhere. They can't make it uh, even if they're tapping.

SPEAKER_02: 56:44

You know, uh tapping along with Google or YouTube, it's gotta be a totally different experience than when you're sitting with a master who's customizing a uh uh protocol for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:57

And and I record in the end of every session, I record the part where we're tapping in what you want to do. And I have clients that um I I heard one the other day. He he just had one session on this particular issue. Whenever it comes up, he just hits the record button, uh, the play button on his phone or computer and just does, okay, it's better again. Um if he wanted a more permanent solution, he could come in for some more sessions, but it works from the beginning. I've had clients terribly depressed, and a couple years later, oh, I'm depressed again, you got to see me, and up they come on on the screen because I do this all over the world. And says, you know, I'm feeling a lot better. I because this guy had cataloged all of the session recordings, you know, that tapping in stuff. So I tap through all those and I feel a lot better.

SPEAKER_02: 57:48

Wow, that's awesome. Well, Bill, if people want to uh experience a session with you and they want to get to know you, I mean, I uh you and I, we have to talk. I'll see you tonight. We definitely have to talk because I definitely uh I'm all about maximizing, optimizing performance for sure. But how do people get in touch with you uh if they want to try out a session?

SPEAKER_00: 58:11

It's the Pro EFT Center, uh, and it's an LLC in Boise. And uh uh what I can do in the chat, uh let me go there.

SPEAKER_02: 58:25

Yeah, yeah, we can put your website. I'll we'll put your website in the show notes as well. And I know you're on Facebook. People can find you on Facebook.

SPEAKER_00: 58:35

Uh caution, the Facebook, there is there is a Facebook fan page, but uh thousands of people connected to my normal page and my nurse advocacy uh things that I do, they're on the Facebook page, and I keep them separate. And and I keep I keep them separate. Uh, and I'm gonna send you a uh here, let me copy. I'll I'll send it in there, and this is a good thing to uh tell people. And and by the way, this works all over the world on video chat, and I also have an office because a lot of people like that. And so uh I mean they like it better. I have some locals that are going, uh I don't want to go through the traffic, and I have other people. I want you in person.

SPEAKER_02: 59:26

And uh so if you're in Boise, if you're in the Treasure Valley, you can look him up. He's got his address. That's great. He's even given you directions.

unknown: 59:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 59:39

Uh it's a little confusing. It's an older building, but yeah, and it's yeah, it's it's you know where the parks are and and Ann Morrison and Yeah, the right there on the corner.

SPEAKER_02: 59:52

And uh beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 59:54

Morrison and oh, what is the other one? Um Albertson's Park. So they're You know, they're across the street. Well, right at the bridge, there's the building.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:05

Nice. So after your EFT session, you can go fishing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:10

Ah, yeah, whatever you would like to do. Yes. That's not that's not a that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:18

Well, Bill, I can't thank you enough for your time and just sharing a little bit about um the benefits of EFT. Um, you know, my thought is you can take a pill and you stay in therapy, or you can learn some techniques and and really heal. I I really believe our we were created to heal. And we were created to continually grow and develop and optimize who we are and how we feel and be able to experience joy in our lives. So thank you for sharing such a phenomenally powerful tool that we all have at our fingertips.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:53

Yeah, the your healing and the relief of your suffering is at the tips of your fingers. And if it just simple stuff, just tap and do it. And if it's not working, come in and see me, and and you'll get way better at it. My clients tend to be really good at this for themselves. And uh then it's time to market some more for Bill.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:14

So there you go. All right. Well, Bill, thank you so much. I will see you tonight.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:20

We'll see you in a little while. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:25

Bye bye.